Sometime in the ending of the previous century, I used to occasionally meet this old man who also happened to be a sometime faculty of mine.
I was not alone in doing so. I would always end up being one in a crowd of 20-30 people. There was no agenda. He was a good orator and he taught well, and he also counselled.
I was not close to him. But I liked him. One evening, he had an exercise for us. He gave us words and we were asked to form sentences from them - the first thoughts that came to our mind.
We got words - I, Friends, Home, Love.....,Life.....S€x......
And I still remember what I wrote for S€x. What I wrote then is not the point. What I thought about it, and what importance or worth I ascribed to it, is in fact the point.
Given the fact that I still had not been initiated into it, is also the point. What I wrote then was purely perception based rather than experience based.
But then finally one actually gets to do it.
And then someone finds out about being subfertile.
And the whole drama of sex for fun or sex for progeny takes on a different hue.
Put simply, I have been denying DHfor a while now this particular cycle. And this has been a big cycle. The biggest by far.
But, my libido is completely snuffed out. I am a lit candle that was thrown into a pool.
There is no fire, no desire, no wick left to light.
And what is the point? I won’t get pregnant anyways…after timing sex, jumping into the act even when just wanting to sleep off, and going at it so nicely, there is nothing to show for it.
I have never been very high on that department. But I had never fallen this low either.
I really am no longer in the mood. And DH keeps nudging me to get my act together. And I can't.
Just want somebody to come and erase this blackboard, so that there can be a fresh start. That seems to be a weak argument to dear hubby.
We had been great to the tee in this cycle, till I first begin to watch out for AF. First came the AF delay, then came hope, through that came evil pee-sticks, then came a beta, then came waiting, then came a medicine drama to get the lady to concede. In all that waiting, I lost the desire for it completely.
The next cycle. Please hold on. I am not a lost case yet.
Do you believe that Infertility has changed the way you approach s€x, or the importance you ascribe to it, or the net enjoyment of the act?
^WiseGuy^
I was not alone in doing so. I would always end up being one in a crowd of 20-30 people. There was no agenda. He was a good orator and he taught well, and he also counselled.
I was not close to him. But I liked him. One evening, he had an exercise for us. He gave us words and we were asked to form sentences from them - the first thoughts that came to our mind.
We got words - I, Friends, Home, Love.....,Life.....S€x......
And I still remember what I wrote for S€x. What I wrote then is not the point. What I thought about it, and what importance or worth I ascribed to it, is in fact the point.
Given the fact that I still had not been initiated into it, is also the point. What I wrote then was purely perception based rather than experience based.
But then finally one actually gets to do it.
And then someone finds out about being subfertile.
And the whole drama of sex for fun or sex for progeny takes on a different hue.
Put simply, I have been denying DH
But, my libido is completely snuffed out. I am a lit candle that was thrown into a pool.
There is no fire, no desire, no wick left to light.
And what is the point? I won’t get pregnant anyways…after timing sex, jumping into the act even when just wanting to sleep off, and going at it so nicely, there is nothing to show for it.
I have never been very high on that department. But I had never fallen this low either.
I really am no longer in the mood. And DH keeps nudging me to get my act together. And I can't.
Just want somebody to come and erase this blackboard, so that there can be a fresh start. That seems to be a weak argument to dear hubby.
We had been great to the tee in this cycle, till I first begin to watch out for AF. First came the AF delay, then came hope, through that came evil pee-sticks, then came a beta, then came waiting, then came a medicine drama to get the lady to concede. In all that waiting, I lost the desire for it completely.
The next cycle. Please hold on. I am not a lost case yet.
Do you believe that Infertility has changed the way you approach s€x, or the importance you ascribe to it, or the net enjoyment of the act?
^WiseGuy^
Thank you for your kind words on my blog. :)
ReplyDeleteIt is frustrating what infertility can to our intimacy with our significant others. Hang in there. (((HUGS)))
ICLW
71 days is way too long. You are not a lost case. You are just frustrated as all get out. (((HUGS)))
ReplyDeleteICLW
STILL no af.... I can't believe it. I'm sorry that the bedroom activities with hubby have been doused with cold water. It is likely hormones and stress.
ReplyDeleteAnd I *love* your crossed-out words!!! ;)
Thank you so much for all your support this week!
ReplyDeleteI totally get not being motivated in the bedroom department. The last couple of cycles have been low on the romance... my poor dh just doesn't get it.
It will come back... we just need to figure out how to get your AF to show up! Maybe we need to send her an engraved invitation?
HAPPY ICLW!
ReplyDeleteI would think it's understandable to not be in the mood for such acitivites. Stressing and thinking about it, will only drive you mad. But it's not like you can just turn it off.
Maybe take some time to love yourself. Take a nice bath, light some cnadles, have a class of wine, take a walk. Do something that feels good to YOU. Not just to get yourself in the mood but to be kind to YOU. You deserve kindness.
*HUGS*
Thanks for alerting me of your question! I must warn you, I'm feeling awfully "wordy" tonight, so this might be a long comment.
ReplyDeleteAfter Nae, it took me a long time to get back into the swing of things, so to speak. Then I got sick, not sure as to why I got PID still. We took precautions so as not tog et sick again, but I was still terrified. Then we had miscarriage one and I was still sick off and on with bladder/kidney infections for years, s3x was the last thing on my mind. Once I was in a better place emotionally, our bedroom life became more fun. Then there was miscarriage number 2 and everything went downhill from there. Once I finally healed myself physically and emotionally we were back on track in that department. Then we got pregnant with Zilla. I was so excited, but scared at the same time. Once my mind was happy, things were great in the bedroom. Until depression, pre term labor and pelvic rest hit.
It took me a long time to be happy in my mind after Zilla, so bed room activites declined A LOT. Once I came to terms with everything and started to heal myself again, things becamse "warmer" in the bedroom.
So, yes it did change me. It scared me, but then I also got to know my body really well. I use that knowledge to my benefit now.
OK, I am done now. Sorry that was so long! WHEW!
*HUGS*
Yes - and I was going to leave my comment at that, but...
ReplyDeletein the middle of my deepest, darkest moments I wanted nothing to do with it. Somewhere along the way it had become something that we did to have a baby and like you - if we can't what's the point? But somehow I managed to find a way back to enjoying the 'act' and because I know that timing doesn't matter, it's something that happens when we want and not when we think it should - and that's a whole difference.
ICLW
Wow AF still hasn't arrived? So the meds havent done their job yet??
ReplyDeleteYes! And the longer this whole secondary infertility thing (for us) goes on (surely, surely we will be blessed a second time - the universe gave us a perfect pregnancy and a son, but took him away so quickly) the more I don't see the purpose of 'fun' in the bedroom.
ReplyDeleteBeige... I think I'll paint the ceiling beige... ;-) x
http://allthelittleponies.blogspot.com
http://thehoneycakemixup.blogspot.com
Dang. Still no period :(
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, we have had sex dramas. Recently I had bad pain whenever we did it - so we didn't do it. That's only just stopped. And all through that last cycle I was completely off it - no desire (hormones, I'm sure) and no need (I thought). What's the point of procreation if you can't procreate? I'd lost sight of the loveliness of makin' whoopee for whoopee's sake.
I do hope you get your mojo back soon and I highly advise having a go even if you don't feel like it. Sounds like your DH is an understanding fellow, if he knows to go slow and work you up you'll probably find yourself enjoying it. (That worked for me anyway.)
((hugs))
Sorry AF is so lost getting to your house. Do we need to get her a GPS? Or a watch or blackberry or something?
ReplyDeleteAs for the desire for sex, I think IF whacks the desire right out of you. With wonky hormones, timed intercourse and invasive coochie procedures, it is hard to imagine what spontaneous sex is. But it is part of the highs and lows of a marriage or relationship.
Hang in there!!
I think infertility effects my libido when I have a chance to get pregnant. Currently, I'm in my longest cycle ever, too. I'm at CD 206. Previous record was 117 days.
ReplyDeleteIt's tough, no doubt about that.
The best advice I can give, is to take a hot shower/bath, shave legs, have a glass of wine (or whatever drink you prefer), put lotion on your body, and dress in something that makes you feel sexy.
Tell the hubs you want to make out, kiss, grope, then if it leads to sex, great, if not, no pressure.
Hang in there hon. xoxo
I think so, I mean how could it not?
ReplyDeleteBut, at the same time... it hasn't.
Hmmm, how to explain that.
Sometimes, it's all love and feeling, and we only focus on that. And at other times, all I can think about is my failure or my bodies failure, and how I just don't want to do it anymore.
It was horrible after my last miscarriage. I honestly think that the only thing that really helped us get over that hurdle, was that we went away for a few days to regroup ourselves.
Hang in there hun. Is she showing? Are you taking progesterone to end this cycle?
Lots of (*hugs*)
71 days..wow. that is FAR TOO LONG!
ReplyDeletei wish you the best for your upcoming ivf cycle.
ILCW
My longest cycle ever? 187 days - count them my friend! It sucks though, and I hope that yours comes soon...
ReplyDeleteAnd yes infertility has completely messed with our sex life. In a huge and disturbing way.
xxx
Oh yeah, I went through a period where I thought,"If it's not baby makin sex, what is the point?" And after i finally got pregnant, I was in the " why do I need to have sex now? I got what I wanted!" I think it was because for so long, sex had become a chore. Something we "had" to do on certain days each month. I still worry about if it will ever be back to "normal" again.
ReplyDeleteI can totally understand your lack of libido. There was a certain point when had a dry spell.
ReplyDeleteNow, sex is purely recreational. I love having sex just to have sex.
Yes. After I got married I wanted to use my sexuality for so much more. I wanted to do magic with it, do tantra yoga, explore a whole lot of different possibilities with sacred sexuality. then, this very mundane thing about making babies interfered with my plans. I thought they were just going to be postponed for a while, but we never got back in the boat, since we settled for doing it the expected male has to ejaculate kinda thing. No offense here, this is what we do too, but that's not what I dreamt I'd be doing se.xually with someone I trust. What's the point of trying to have fun that way? When all I care about is his sperm?! That's how I felt and still feel. After a few years, when I realized the baby was not going to happen, I had periods of enjoyment. But not many.
ReplyDeleteSecond, is your low libido just regarding DH or regarding any fantasies as well? Do you have erotic dreams? that would indicate that this is more of a circumstance thing, regarding marriage. For Carl Jung, libido was more than se.xual desire, it was sheer vitality as well. A low libido turns into low vitality. And it works the other way around too. So work on restoring your health and vitality and the libido will be back.
Damn, I am so sorry this cycle is still ongoing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, our sex life was affected by infertility. But, for us, the pain my hubby has to deal with because of his knee injury has had more of a long term affect. One way or another, it totally sucks when a medical issue affects intimacy.
I don't think there's any way to avoid infertility affecting your sex life. Even if it doesn't kill or suppress it, there's no way to avoid some kind of re-examination at least, I think.
ReplyDeleteIn our case it has, in it's own way, helped our sex life. When I was stuck in the endless cycles (either no period or the never-ending period) my drive was shot. I assume that this was both psychological and hormone driven. Now that I'm doing treatments, the extra hormones are having a positive effect. I am sure, though, that if I had normal cycles without intervention and we didn't have IF hanging over us that it would be all together different from what we have now.
I hope that AF finds her way soon.
ICLW
Doing the deed simply to rear offspring really does take away from the fun of it all. I remember when we first started the IF process we thought it would be sooo fun to get it on every other day... morons! Who knew you could grow to dread it?
ReplyDeleteThat really is a long cycle you're on. Hopefully AF rears soon, and hopefully it isn't a doozy.
No question that there's a difference between making love and making babies. And, I'm guessing because of this outrageously long cycle that your hormones are screwed up which is contributing to your lack of sex drive.
ReplyDeleteFor me, even when I'm not much in the mood, I go with it anyway and always am happy I did.
Hang in there.
Thank you, Wiseguy, for dropping by Whatever He Says. I pray blessing on your womb, and on your relationship with DH. Wait till you've been married 40 years--we always seem to be on different wavelenghts when it comes to sex--but we're still here, together, by God's grace. We wouldn't be, without him.
ReplyDeleteBlessings and hugs,
Belinda
ICLW
It depends on the day for me, really. This week, we've been having sex because we want to, and it's freaking awesome. It makes me feel like a woman who loves her husband, not just the woman who can't make her great husband a dad.
ReplyDeleteWhen we're in the throes of ovulation stalking, I resent it. I resent that we can't just have a wild night at the bar with friends and show up with a baby carrier 9 months later. I resent that we have to have sex as a means to an end, rather than a means to pleasure. I dislike how it feels like a chore, something both only do because you have a mutual goal, and it's something you must do to reach your goal.
My therapist once told me that baby making sex is not making love and not to confuse the two. Sometimes you get lucky and they intermingle, but a lot of times they don't. That somehow helped me feel better about it.
Infertility definitely affected our sex life. Baby making sex is very different from fun sex and it tainted how I felt about ANY intimacy. Whether it was timed ovulation sex or not, the whole time all I could think about was, "Why? It's all for nothing."
ReplyDeleteIt really to a LOT of effort, mostly on my part I think, to get over that mindset.
Because of your Epic Cycle, I wonder if your feelings re: sex/intimacy are compounded by hormones?
((((HUGS))))
Wow. 71 days. I can easily see how this would f*** with you head (and libido) in a major way.
ReplyDeleteSex, for me, has never ='ed "baby"....nor will ever, ever = baby. Sex is purely for fun and to experience a connection. But I will admit that sometimes, in the middle of the act, I think, "This is bizarre. Sex exists to make babies. If I can't make babies, why do I have sex?" Logically, I know that sex's sole purpose is not to propagate the species....but still. Kind of a mind f***.
The brain is a mighty, powerful organ. If it's occupied with an existential crisis (such as IF), it can (and will) overpower sexual desire.
I have hope that yours will return in due time.
Sorry for such a long cycle! Wow.
ReplyDeleteInfertility has totally screwed (horrible pun intended) with our sex life. The days before baby-making were all about fun with trying to be "careful" to not get pg. LOL. Oh the days. When we started trying it was naughty and new and OMG everyone will soon know that we really have sex. The years of temperatures and charting totally put a schedule to it all. Who wants to be told that they have to have sex even though they are sick, pissed off, not in the mood... The testing and RE appts and then all the IVF stuff made it all so clinical and demanding - make sure he "hmmm hmmms" 3-5 days before ER. Right, because I feel so sexy when I'm bloated, bruised, and growing eggs. And now, trying to find sex again without thinking of babies. It's an emotional transition to say the least. Hoping to find the fun again one day soon. Sorry for the novel!
Thanks so much for your supportive comment on my letting go post. I've always been a race hopper too...
Thanks for stopping by my blog. Happy ICLW to us all! Sometimes I feel like some of the passions have waned. It's hard to explain to poor DH. It's all based on hormones, and when there aren't enough hormones to make you wanna do it, it's a pretty vicious cycle. I'm using ginseng and some accupressure to help bring back the libido. Let's hope it helps!
ReplyDeleteWithout a doubt! For us, TTC and IF has effect "the drive" for us in a couple of ways. First of all, when I went off BCP I found that I finally had a s3x drive. The sad part about that is that I went on BCP long before we started down the s3x path...I still feel guilty that he "put up" with that for so long, but hopefully I've made up for it! LOL ;-)
ReplyDeleteThen there's the recent MFI diagnosis. I have to fight the "what difference does it make. we won't get pregnant anyway" thoughts. They're definitely there.
(((HUGS)))
There was definately a time when nothing ever happened in the bedroom. We had both given up thinking babies were the only reason. Now that we've somewhat moved on we definately have more fun. Though there are still times those thoughts take over.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with this cycle and moving forward. I'm sorry it's been so long. Thanks for stopping by my blog too the depressing mood from Friday has lifted and I feel much better about life.
ICLW
When you've been trying so long you do lose enthusiasm that is for sure. We haven't had too many issues but if there has really been a month where I couldn't face it, we have just let it go.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the long cycle, that sucks.
Thanks for visiting my blog.
ICLW
I agree. I never have been obsessive about the baby-making aspect of sex, but the constant poking and prodding of my girlie parts by doctors has definitely caused my libido to go way, way down. Poor husband... I just hope one day this will all be over.
ReplyDeleteICLW
ReplyDeleteBack in my TTC days, I was kind of grateful because we made love more often. But then it got to the point where it was a necessary evil so to speak. And then I resented infertility because there wasn't any point in doing it because I wasn't going to get pregnant and so we didn't have sex at all. The joy was sucked right out of it for me. At some point, we had to sit down and talk about it because frankly we were just getting snippy with one another all the time - it was like bed time was more like failure time - and who likes that? Why not just make a date for romance where you're not going to do it, make out like teenagers and maybe the intimacy part, where you just feel close again, in love again, returns?
My 2 cents for ICLW.
TTC ruined our you-know-what life. There was too much grief associated with it.It's taken all this time to start getting it back, a year and a half after our son was born. We're starting to TTC again, but this time is different. Now that we know, for us, making it and making children are not necessarily connected, we are saving it just for ourselves. No pressure to succeed again. We want to leave all the failure and despair at the RE's office, where it belongs.
ReplyDeleteI know that when actively TTC my husband often felt "used" ... everything had to be done at a certain time, a certain way ... It's amazing how much pressure there is revolving around it. There were a lot of times where I would say "hey, it would be a good idea to BD tonight" and I'd be met with "I'm not in the mood" or an "okay" but then he'd stay up late and tell me he didn't want to wake me. Disappointment would come but I'd get over it.
ReplyDeleteStopping by via the ICLW links
I will opt out of answering this one...maybe. I think, "how could it not?" as someone else up there said...
ReplyDeleteBut then again, my experience was tainted by not-love, so I don't know that we are speaking of the same thing when we both say "marriage."
Does that make sense?
I'm way behind, but yes, IF has played a not so pleasant role in the bedroom.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to feel upset with your body and forget the intimacy that goes along with the act, if you're not focusing on baby making.
I hope you can reconnect with hubby soon.
((HUGS))